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Sep 27, 2005, 06:16 AM // 06:16
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#41 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Apr 2005
Guild: aFk
Profession: Me/Rt
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I like arsoft guns myself cheaper, don't hurt as much, and look more realistic then paintball guns.
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Oct 07, 2005, 04:09 AM // 04:09
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#42 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: May 2005
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Ok, first off the reason I didn't "defend" myself earlier. I don't play this game anymore, and only occasionaly visit the forums out of some morbid interest in the death rattle.
My experience: I was a Navy Corpsman attached to 2nd. Recon out of Camp Pendleton, Ca. I served under Reagan and Bush (the less dumb one). As a medic, I was by far the weakest member of the team. They carried me a lot, truth be told. I have however been around a few real experts. By the way, I don't really consider a guy to be an expert just because he's teaching at some "defensive handgun" course. What I mean by a "novice" weapon: I'll start from the other direction if you don't mind. The weapons used in competitions are clearly NOT viable for combat. The average tolerances are tight enough that a single grain of sand could be enough to cause a feed failure. The Stoner was loved by the Navy Seals during trials in Vietnam, but considered far too dificult to maintain for use by regular infantry. This is a clear diference between experts and novices. A novice firearm would be one that can be maintained and operated by a novice. Certainly, any novice firearm can also be used by an expert, but going the other way is not recomended. Most of us would agree that a 1911 RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed and locked is not a good recomendation for any noobie. By the way, the real reason the 1911 was removed from service is the same reason we have moved from the 30-06 to the 308, and now to the 223. At the turn of the last century the average soldier was a country boy, with a lifetime of firearms experience. The average soldier of today fires his first weapon in Basic. The original Glock was designed by Gaston Glock, and engineer with no prior firearms experience. If I remember correctly, he had never even fired one before going after an open contract with the Austrian Army. He was a novice, and in interviews he mentioned his desire to build a weapon that would be novice friendly. When I call the Glock a novice firearm, I do so because the designer agrees with me. Also, I feel I should point out that the M16 was designed for the same novice user requirement. Because of the nature of blowback actuated firearms, you can either have accuracy or low maintainance reliability. You cannot usualy have both. Weapons designed for experts tend to have high levels of accuracy, and assume a high level of maintainance by the user to keep them functional. Those designed for novices are meant to maintain functunality after being dropped in the mud, and put away wet for a week. I think it's safe to call the Glock a novice weapon. |
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Oct 07, 2005, 07:04 AM // 07:04
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#43 | |||||
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Northern CA
Guild: Outlaws of the Water Margin
Profession: Mo/Me
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Quote:
With all due respect to your military background, you seem to brandish a palpable arrogance over civilians and law enforcement when it comes to knowledge of firearms. While I, personally, have never served in the US military, I have friends who served in Vietnam and Korea and remain active shooters. One of my closest buddies was a medic in the 1st Air Cav in Vietnam during Tet - and has had more than his share of combat experience. I respect his opinions when it comes to firearms and what's practical. Contrary to your assumption, my personal instructors aren't self-proclaimed para-military. The defensive handgun instructors of proper shooting schools like Gunsite include Marine Lt. Colonel Jeff Cooper who was also one of the founders of Gunsite. He served in WWII and Korea and is, by many, considered one of the foremost authorities on the rifle and carbine in combat and is considered the foremost authority on the handgun in defense. Jeff Cooper was the originator of the "scout rifle" concept which gave rise to the Steyer scout rifle. That being said, not all gun-schools are the same. There are only a handful of proper defensive firearms schools around the country - they're known by reputation: Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, FrontSite and a few others. I have friends in law enforcement. While, I agree that the vast majority of LEOs have a poor understanding of their sidearm and only practice to maintain qualification each year, my friends (in Northern CA, Southern CA, Nevada, RI and CT) happen to be avid shooters. So you really haven't detracted from the strength of my references at all. Quote:
I don't know why you assume I do. I'll say it again - the Glock isn't a comp gun. When I trained with my Glock 23 - I had to practice transition from subgun (HK MP-5) to pistol and also from pistol to subgun. Sometimes it meant having to discard my firearm and/or magazines into the sand or rocks. A typical course would be 4-7 days from 7am to 9pm (including night shooting etc.). The Glock 23 wasn't fussy about sand or dirt. I had zero malfunctions. Each night I stripped the weapon, cleaned and lubed it. I didn't have to maintain the MP-5 since it was a loaner. You haven't explained how that relates to the Glock. The Glock isn't a comp-gun. Quote:
Quote:
You said the Glock would fail to meet the requirements of an "expert" shooter. I have friends in law enforcement and military who hold a high opinion of the Glock. Granted, I have one or two friends who actually despise it simply because they didn't feel comfortable shooting it - but not one of them considers it lacking in any objective fashion outside of personal taste or aesthetics. Quote:
The "blowback" mechanism only works for low-powered semiauto pistols, like a .22 Colt Woodsman. 2. I don't understand something: At first you imply that a high maintenance, high tolerance piece of equipment as inappropriate for combat ("The average tolerances are tight enough that a single grain of sand could be enough to cause a feed failure"). Then later you say that "experts tend to have high levels of accuracy, and assume a high level of maintainance by the user to keep them functional." So a weapon that requires a good deal of attention to remain functional in the field is appropriate, or inappropriate for the field? You seem to make both cases here. I assume you meant that an "expert" knows their equipment - not just shooting it but fully stripping cleaning and lubeing it. But that doesn't mean an easily maintained weapon is necessarily inferior. Just because it's easier to field strip than a 1911 doesn't excuse the user from having to maintain it properly. 3. Going back to your original point - It's not that you just called Glock a "novice" gun - your whole point was that the Glock has little to offer for "experts" in real world applications. And you still haven't made that point. Your thesis remains unsupported. You imply it's inferiority with analogies and generalizations, but please tell me one concrete thing about the Glock that makes it inferior. I'll reiterate some of my main points. - The Glock is well regarded by "experts." - Not just self-proclaimed experts but experienced and active professionals in the military and law enforcement. - The Glock is used in combat. Standard issue for Blackwater USA. The standard issue rifle is the FN-FAL. - I'm not saying it's the very best - but it's a gun that many "experts" respect and use. BTW- I want to thank you for your service to our country. Last edited by Xue Yi Liang; Oct 07, 2005 at 11:40 AM // 11:40.. |
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Oct 07, 2005, 07:08 AM // 07:08
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#44 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jul 2005
Guild: Lionheart Braves [LHB]
Profession: W/
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if blackwater uses it, then it is not to be taken lightly
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Oct 07, 2005, 07:22 AM // 07:22
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#45 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: mtricht
Guild: Limburgse Jagers
Profession: W/Mo
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im against guns.
maybe coz i live in holland and were not allowed guns. but still. im against it. unless in games of course. big gravity guns are ok |
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Oct 07, 2005, 07:24 AM // 07:24
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#46 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jul 2005
Guild: Lionheart Braves [LHB]
Profession: W/
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Railgun!!!!!
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Oct 07, 2005, 07:27 AM // 07:27
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#47 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: mtricht
Guild: Limburgse Jagers
Profession: W/Mo
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redeemer ...
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Oct 07, 2005, 07:33 AM // 07:33
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#48 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jul 2005
Guild: Lionheart Braves [LHB]
Profession: W/
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halo superweapon gun :P
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Oct 07, 2005, 07:34 AM // 07:34
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#49 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Northern CA
Guild: Outlaws of the Water Margin
Profession: Mo/Me
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....pull my finger!
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Oct 07, 2005, 07:37 AM // 07:37
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#50 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: mtricht
Guild: Limburgse Jagers
Profession: W/Mo
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Quote:
no way. we saw what happened in Iraq |
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Oct 07, 2005, 07:49 AM // 07:49
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#51 | ||
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jul 2005
Guild: Lionheart Braves [LHB]
Profession: W/
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Quote:
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